ELDER

right

PASTOR

you know about this

ELDER

I think I do

PASTOR

Associate Pastor Ken came to me, told me
about how Joshua had gotten together
some of the college kids

ELDER

yes I know this

PASTOR

Saturday nights they’d go downtown,
a group of five or six, they’d
go up to people on the street,
call them out as sinners,
down where the bars are, the clubs,
they’d go up to people and tell them
they were going to Hell, tell them

ELDER

it was inappropriate

PASTOR

How do you think

it makes people feel

to be pulled aside

and told that they’re sinners?

ELDER

We’re all sinners, aren’t we—?

PASTOR

To be told, “Hey—you’re bad,

you’re a bad person and you should feel bad about yourself.”

Why do thieves hang out with thieves?

So they don’t feel so guilty.

But shouldn’t it be the church that makes a
thief feel welcome.

ELDER

I don’t disagree.

PASTOR

But then here we have Joshua and a bunch of college kids calling people sinners, the world looks at us and says, “Who is responsible

for spreading around all that

contempt,” that’s what it is really—

and the world looks back at our church,
and the world looks back at me, me,
and they say, “He is responsible for that,”

and I don’t want to be responsible for that,
that suffering.

What good is a good church
if all it does

is make everyone feel so bad?

ELDER

yes—but what good is a church that no one goes to?

PASTOR

only 50 people left

ELDER

Joshua was very popular, he had a different kind of relationship with the congregation than you, not better, just different, you’re so busy running the church, writing your sermons, overseeing all sorts of—I understand that’s hard, but that meant Joshua was the one who people came to, who listened, on a daily basis, to their problems. He was the one that people had a uh uh more personal relationship with—again, you’re busy, you can’t be blamed, but I have to think that carries a certain weight. I just think that Joshua served a very important function and without him

PASTOR

you think

ELDER

yes

PASTOR

or the board thinks—?

ELDER

I’m just here to let you know their concerns

PASTOR

and I need you to tell the board that there’s nothing to be concerned about.

ELDER

We can’t afford a schism

PASTOR

afford

ELDER

yes

PASTOR

now you’re talking about money

ELDER

among other things

PASTOR

the church has paid its debt

ELDER

only to incur another?

PASTOR

You and the board worry about the business of the church so that I don’t have to.

ELDER

… well, you say that, Paul, but you have a board, a group of

ten or so people who really like you a lot,

and care about you and your ministry,

and your family, and they wouldn’t be serving on the board

unless they cared about you.