The journalist asked Todor what he felt was the right approach for pro-life activists to take … and what was his benefactor’s take on these aggressive protests.

‘Now I would never dare to speak for Mr Kelleher, but I can say with authority, from the conversations we’ve had on the subject, that Mr Kelleher is not only against the intimidation of women, but also that – as shown by his magnificent donation of $2 million to the women’s shelter in downtown LA – he is also helping the fight against all violence toward women.’

Elise came in here.

‘My word, Kelleher truly knows how to play the PR game brilliantly and cover his socially conservative tracks with money.’

On the radio Todor continued.

‘So to answer your question … what is the right approach for pro-life activists to take? To begin with: back off frightening women needing abortions, while using all the legal means possible to curb these clinics from performing abortions. Use education as a way of showing women that there are reasonable other choices. But coercion and terrorism as part of the anti-abortion campaign … that must stop now.’

My immediate reaction was: good on Todor for speaking out against Agnieska and Teresa and all their other fellow radicals. Elise thought otherwise.

‘That man speaks horseshit. Very dangerous horseshit.’

‘It didn’t strike me as dangerous,’ I said. ‘The guy is clearly anti-abortion. But he’s still insisting that the crazy behavior stop’.

‘What he’s really saying is: we cannot stop until abortion in this country is driven underground again. He’s doing what Wilbur used to call “the bearded nice priest routine”: coming across all understanding and humanist, but actually articulating a deeply intransigent position – and one which shows he knows nothing about women and the fact that everyone who opts for an abortion has a different reaction to the process; that there is not one set emotional response to it – as that fool seems to be implying.’

I’d not heard this anger in Elise before. It threw me. But it didn’t surprise me. She’d survived a clinic bombing, after all – and one of her colleagues didn’t.

‘Look,’ I said, ‘you have every reason to hate the right-to-lifers given what you’ve been through. And yeah, Todor tries to play the cool padre dude. But the guy has always taken the hard Vatican line when it comes to abortion. I know that he’s been in cahoots with that woman Teresa and her crew – which includes my wife – for years. For him to now come out and advocate no violence against clinics and no protest … sorry, that’s a big thing.’

I could see Elise scrunch up her face. Then she just shrugged and said: