"And those are the top experts in white supremacist groups," Rodgers said. "So a handful of Pure Nationals gets taken and what happens? The FBI loses the guts of its anti-white-supremacist force."

McCaskey thought for a moment, then shook his head. "That makes sense as a tactic, but it doesn't sound macho enough for the Pure Nationals. They believe in force of arms, not sleight of hand. They'd rather go down fighting."

"Then why didn't they?" Rodgers asked.

"Oh, the bastards fought," McCaskey said. "They tried to kill our guys--"

"But they didn't," Rodgers said. "And they still let themselves get taken."

"They were outgunned. The FBI can still fight," McCaskey added defensively.

"I know," said Rodgers. "But if Pure Nation's so macho, why did they surrender? Wouldn't it have helped their cause if they became martyrs and made the FBI look like ruffians?"

"They aren't Kamikazes," McCaskey said. "They're brash and ruthless but they want to live."

"Live," Rodgers said. "These people are barely going to suffer. What's the worst charge these people are facing? They fired at federal agents. They plotted. They stockpiled arms. If they plea-bargain, they're looking at seven to ten years each in prison. Seven to ten years of cable TV and gyms. Out by the time they're thirty-five, forty years old. They're hailed as heroes by their people. That would appeal to any attention-craving sicko."

"Possibly," McCaskey said, "but it doesn't fit in with any of the profiles we've ever seen. Surrender to misinform, then sit in jail? No," McCaskey said, "I still say that isn't enough to satisfy these people."

"And I say we may be looking at a new breed of white supremacist. One who may be adept at playing games."

McCaskey looked at him. He started to say something, then stopped.

Rodgers said, "I know what you're thinking. You still feel we're giving them the benefit of too much forethought."

"Of any forethought," McCaskey said. "I don't want to underestimate the enemy, but these are people governed by a bunker mentality and blind rage. Any variation would be an aberration."

"They're also trained followers," Rodgers said. "If you dangle the right prize you can get them to do your bidding. Think about that. What kind of a prize would get white supremacists to do what they're told?"

"Freedom," McCaskey said. "The freedom to attack what they detest."

"I'll buy that," Rodgers said. "And what gives any person a moral right to attack?"

McCaskey said, "If they're attacked first."

"Okay," Rodgers said. He was getting wound up. McCaskey might not agree, but he felt that there was something here. "Assume you want to make a group attack you. You antagonize them. You make them feel threatened--"

The phone beeped.

"The hate games," McCaskey said.

"That's not enough," Rodgers said.