I first learned this when I was working for a large church, one of the best-known churches in the whole world. This church was visited by some of the most recognized speakers, and also many not so well-known speakers—the whole gamut of Christian ministers. My job was to pick them up from the airport and host them during their stays. I noticed that when certain ministers got into the vehicle, you felt like Jesus sat next to you. They got up and preached, and you felt like Jesus got up and preached.

Other people would come in, and you would think, What just happened? Why do I feel dirty? Why is their conversation so lewd? Then they would get up on the platform and people would be saved, healed, and ministered to. These weren’t fake salvations or healings; it was the power of the Holy Spirit. I would think, God, I don’t get this! What is going on? How can they act this way with me only to walk up on that platform and see people getting saved and healed? That’s when God showed me that Judas proclaimed the kingdom, cast out devils, healed the sick, and did miracles—yet Judas is in hell. Balaam prophesied, but God killed him with the sword. Saul prophesied, but he didn’t end well. The Lord told me, “The anointing of God—the gifts of God working in someone’s life—is not necessarily a sign of the approval of God.” You’ll know them by their fruit (see Matthew 7:16).

Lisa: Would you say, then, that the gift is something that comes upon someone’s life, and the fruit is something developed inside their life—their inward character?

John: Yes, that’s an excellent way of saying it.

Lisa: You talked about being led by an inward peace, and you’ve talked about feeling a check—that gnawing, uncomfortable feeling when the Spirit forbids you. But some would challenge that God even still speaks to us today. They might believe that He only speaks through Scripture. Do you believe God speaks today, and does He only speak in accordance with His Word?

John: First of all, Paul said to the Corinthian church, “You used to follow those dumb idols” (see 1 Corinthians 12:2). Now dumb to us means “stupid” idols, right? What dumb actually means in this context is “mute.” In other words, the gods the Corinthians served could not speak. Paul said, “The difference is, our God speaks.” And He speaks clearly.

How does God speak? The New Testament shows various ways that He speaks to us. First and foremost is the inward witness, that sense of peace. That is the number one way He speaks.

Lisa: Even more than through His Word?