Have you had other out-of-body experiences?

Not from music. But that one time changed me. It was as if a key had turned. It was physical. I was never the same person again.

If not from music what?

I got stung by wasps once and I ran into the kitchen and then I saw Granellen come in and bend down over me. I was lying on the floor and I could see myself lying there looking down. I wondered if I was going to die but just in a vague sort of way. Granellen put some ice wrapped in a towel on my face and after a while I sat up.

Someone once said that the raw material of art is pain. Is that true of music?

I dont know. I’ve never composed music. But I would guess it might be true.

What about mathematics?

Mathematics is just sweat and toil. I wish it were romantic. It isnt. At its worst there are audible suggestions. It’s hard to keep up. You dont dare sleep and you may have been up for two days but that’s too bad. You find yourself making a decision and finding two more decisions waiting and then four and then eight. You have to force yourself to just stop and go back. Begin again. You’re not seeking beauty, you’re seeking simplicity. The beauty comes later. After you’ve made a wreck of yourself.

Is it worth it?

Like nothing else on earth.

What do you think is the one indispensable gift?

Faith.

This is a rather animated you.

Well. You tricked me.

You think that it must be different from music. Math.

The rules of music that guide a composer like Bach…All right. There are not any composers like Bach. There’s just Bach. But ignoring that for the moment, these rules can be learned by laymen. They are there to be learned. Or not. They are there whether the first note of music was ever written or not. Is that true?

It sounds like platonic music. To me.

Yes. It’s at least that bad. Schopenhauer thought that if the universe vanished music alone would remain. The rules are the music. Without the rules you have nothing but noise. When we hear a wrong note we wince. We smile or weep or march to war. Can you explain any of that? How do you know when someone is dancing? What if they are dancing out of time with the music?

I dont know.

No. But this set of rules—I think I’d call them laws, laws of music—is selfcontained and complete. They are known and there will never be any more of them. Is that true of mathematics? Is there such a thing as a grand unifying theory of mathematics? Hilbert’s second thesis? Cantor’s dream? It seems more than unlikely. Langlands or no. And yet must there not be at least a description of mathematics? Both as it is and as it is to become? I wanted to do mathematics. But I wanted to understand it as well. And I never would. I couldnt even frame the question.