‘Well, all I know at this stage is that your thing includes lying to a CID officer investigating a double murder.’

‘In my defence it was only a single murder at that point.’

‘Are you making light of that fact?’

‘Would that be a crime?’

‘Like I said, it’s been noted. Last night, please?’

‘I was here all evening.’

‘Alone?’

‘Yes. I live alone.’

‘And what were you doing?’

‘I was reading. In fact I was rereading this.’

He took a hardback book from the table and offered it to Joe: 12 Rules for Life.

‘A self-help book?’

‘Jordan Peterson. An academic psychologist, at Harvard for many years. And quite the literary star these days. It’s far more than self-help. He explains the scientific basis for many assumptions that are currently unfashionable.’

‘Assumptions? Such as?’

‘Being forthright, being competitive. Taking responsibility for one’s actions. The profound psychological differences between men and women.’

Joe put the book down.

‘Lobsters? This is the lobster guy, right?’

Turner looked mildly impressed.

‘Male lobsters compete for females. The victorious male generates more serotonin for himself, which reinforces his confidence. It pushes him on, and he gets better at it, tries harder. It’s the same mechanism in humans. We compete. We’re supposed to.’

Joe had read a couple of things about the book in the Guardian. But like most things he read these days, it had seemed interesting but distant, like Nick Cave’s latest album, Tarantino’s latest film, anybody’s latest anything… music, films and places that he would never hear, see or visit, all filed in a self-deleting part of his brain.

‘What’s the crossover in membership between the League and your discussion group? There’s Danny Cullen and his two sidekicks. How many more?’

‘None, as far as I recall.’

‘Danny Cullen? Would you describe him as a man in search of the truth?’

‘Aren’t we all? The ones who are searching for anything, that is.’

Joe rubbed a hand across his face, forcing the tiredness away.

‘The English Patriot League. I read your website, the vigilante stuff in particular. Your members actually confront people on the street?’

‘Yes, the braver ones among us.’

‘That’s a dangerous game, wouldn’t you say?’

‘We try to engage them in conversation, explain what they’re doing to people’s lives. And, of course, we report them to the police, for what it’s worth.’ He smiled. ‘But, yes, it’s a fine line, I accept that.’

‘And then there’s the patriotic bit. The race button’s gotta be the easiest one to push, especially now after everything that’s happened over the last few years. Folk are confused, angry, constantly worried. Throw in some anti-drugs rhetoric, you’ve got yourself a social crusade.’

‘If you’ve read the whole website you’ll know we address all sorts of social issues.’