He gave a tiny shrug, not realising that the gesture made him seem smug.

‘You can get anything on the internet these days, can’t you?’

‘Nah. Wasn’t the net. Some chick gave it to me.’

I smiled at Taylor. ‘Thinking now about why you murdered Ryan . . . we know from various witnesses, including youth club workers, that you and your brother have been grooming kids and teenagers into organised crime and modern slavery. We also know that you’ve been using Facebook groups and websites like LfA to recruit.’ I slid testimonies over the table to Taylor. ‘We know that Patrick Ryan had been volunteering at a number of youth centres, and a staff member has testified that Ryan and your brother, John, had a ruck at the one on Coley Way a few weeks ago. Is that correct?’

‘Poncey do-gooder. He was happy to get his gear off me for years until he got clean and then, guess what? All of a sudden, he’s a born-again anti-drugs campaigner. Forever on his pissing soap-box, preaching away to the kids about the dangers of drugs and pathways and the internet. Like they don’t know. These kids make their own minds up.’ He flicked at one of the pieces of paper on the table.

‘And what happened?’

‘He kept schtum for years. But when he got a job at that posh development, he decided that he didn’t like what I was doing. He wanted to make out like he was better than me. He called me out. Then did the same with my brother in front of everyone at that poxy centre. I wasn’t having that. He wanted to pretend he was all Mr Respectable on his fancy building site. Well, I thought I’d give all his mates there a present. Know what I mean? Every time they think of Ryan, they’ll think of his dead body.’ Kenny laughed. ‘Ryan said we were getting kids into crime and he couldn’t ignore it any longer. Dirty hypocrite, if you ask me.’

‘But that is what you’ve been doing, Mr Hayes,’ I said.

‘I was helping them out. If it wasn’t for me, they’d have been homeless, starving and skint.’

‘By getting them into crime and drugs?’

‘I’m going to come in here, if you don’t mind. DCI Lawson, for the benefit of the tape.’ Jackie was bolt upright. ‘We’ve met before. Haven’t we, Mr Hayes?’ Jackie’s voice cut through the room like a laser. She leaned across the desk at him. ‘In Manchester.’

Hayes snorted down his nose and mumbled.

‘I’m sure you remember Rob Harris and Jay Drury? Those two boys were . . . twelve years old. You’re recruiting them younger now, including your own fifteen-year-old brother?’

‘You leave my brother out of it,’ Hayes shouted.