Then there’s another level where people understand a little about the world and live by habits and a few simple ideas.

CALLISTOS

Dull people.

PLATO

They have illusions too, like accepting conventions and prejudices without thinking about them, and being selfish in an orderly prudent sort of way, buying things for their houses and so on –

DEXIMENES

That sounds like most of us too!

PLATO

All these people are like – like living in a cave. They see only shadows, they don’t see the real world or the light of the sun. But then sometimes some people can get out of the cave –

CALLISTOS

This all sounds rather elitist to me.

PLATO

When they get out they’re amazed, they see real things in the sunlight, their minds are awakened and they understand – and oh – the world, when you understand it and can see it, even a little – can be so beautiful – and the anxiety and the mean egoism go away and your eyes are unveiled – perhaps it’s only for a short time, because the light of the sun dazzles you – and you begin to know about what Acastos calls the truth, and see the difference between truth and falsehood in the clear light of truth itself –

ACASTOS

Like when you really understand mathematics.

PLATO

Yes, like when you really understand anything – And that’s difficult – I don’t just mean slick cleverness, I mean something which shakes the whole soul and opens it out into some huge brightness and this is love too, when we love real things and see them distinctly in a clear light.

MANTIAS

What about the people they’ve left behind in the dark?

PLATO

And when we begin to know and to find out, it’s wonderful, it’s like remembering, as if we were coming home to a spiritual world where we really belong.

MANTIAS

Is this some sort of religious theory?

PLATO

And then the highest thing of all, there’s wisdom, and all the things you understand, the hard things, come together somehow, and you see that they’re connected, and that’s real wisdom, which is goodness and virtue and freedom – real freedom like what most people who talk about freedom can’t conceive of – and this isn’t just intellectual understanding, it’s spiritual, it’s what we really think in our hearts about the gods, like Socrates said – and that’s Eros too, the high, the heavenly Eros, love made perfect and wise and good – and that far far point, that’s truth, seeing everything in the light of the sun –and then – seeing the sun itself – and that’s goodness – and joy–

DEXIMENES

Dear me.

CALLISTOS

It’s those mystery religions, they take drugs, you know.

ACASTOS

This is a bit like something Socrates said once, but you make it all sound different. Socrates never said that everything was connected.

DEXIMENES

May I ask, are we all living at these different levels all the time?